Dr. Kortni (00:00)
Welcome to the Compassionate Newsroom, your gateway to transforming the heart and soul of journalism. I'm your host, Dr. Kortni Alston Lemon. I'm a former news director and television reporter turned happiness scholar. Now I train news leaders and journalists worldwide, teaching them how to cultivate workplace wellbeing and resilience with positive psychology. Each week, join me as I share evidence-based strategies.
and talk with some of the most inspiring people in the industry, including news leaders, journalists, trainers, and mental health experts. Together we'll share actionable approaches to help you. Imagine a newsroom that not only cares about the story, but profoundly values the people behind them. A place where compassion is the competitive advantage. Don't just listen, become part of this transformative journey. Subscribe to and share The Compassionate Newsroom. Let's champion a more supportive,
healthier and happier newsroom culture, one episode at a time.
Dr. Kortni (01:03)
well-being Wednesday. Welcome to episode 13 of the Compassionate Newsroom. I'm Dr. Kortni I'm so happy that you're here. Today, we're diving into a powerful conversation with Eden Fine Day. She is the proud Cree woman from the Sweetgrass First Nation in Treaty Six territory. Eden is a trailblazing publisher of Indiginews in Canada.
an innovative digital news outlet that prioritizes the needs of Indigenous communities. It is a newsroom that promotes the sustainability of independent Indigenous-focused media. In our conversation, Eden will explore how Indigenous values can enrich newsroom culture. She discusses racism, unconscious bias, and the strategies for journalists to protect their mental health. Get ready for a meaningful and transformative discussion.
Dr. Kortni (01:55)
this is a woman that I greatly admire. Eden Fineday is an extraordinary leader and publisher of Indigenous. Eden, I'm so happy that you're here today.
Eden Fineday (02:10)
Thank you so much. It's really nice to be here and see your face again and feel your enthusiasm. Love it.
Dr. Kortni (02:15)
gosh.
Let's have a little bit of it. I missed you so much. Eden and I would have these monthly sessions because I was so, so lucky to have her as someone that the City University of New York asked me to provide coaching to some of their incredible news leaders
Eden Fineday (02:21)
I missed it. It's been too long.
Dr. Kortni (02:41)
So I'm so super excited that we're going to talk about that in a bit. But I wanted to start off
talking about you, your experiences, your leadership style, one thing about Eden that is amazing to me, as I told her that I was, was it binge watching? I was binge watching Eden on YouTube.
Eden Fineday (03:01)
You
Dr. Kortni (03:05)
I was doing that. And she is an incredible singer. She's also worked in other forms of industry before coming into journalism. And now she is the publisher of Indigenews that's based out of Canada. And I'm curious as it relates to your journey, tell us what led you into the field of journalism and how those experiences kind of
really helped inform your approach to leading Indigenous.
Eden Fineday (03:38)
Yeah, I mean, honestly, like I was a big fan of Indigenous news and I would see it on my timeline back when we were allowed to see news in Canada before Meadow blocked that. So back in the good old days when I could be on Facebook and I could see, you know, Indigenous posting these stories, I had no idea about who they were, but I noticed that I loved the slant of their stories and I was like, this place is cool. Like, they're awesome. And then randomly I came across this job posting for a managing editor.
Dr. Kortni (03:48)
That's right.
Eden Fineday (04:04)
Now, I was a writer. I'd been working on my first novel and I've always enjoyed writing. I was doing some little pieces for CDC kids about explaining pre-culture. But I was not a journalist. I would not consider myself a journalist. And I did work for the federal government for nine or 10 years and I was in a management position. I felt like I knew I had managing skills and I knew I had writing skills, but I had no journalism industry experience.
But I applied anyway because I've worked for Indigenous organizations and I know how hard it is to find Indigenous candidates. Like people just don't apply. Like I have in the past and other organizations have been trying to hire Indigenous folks for specific positions and then just really struggled to find anyone. Sometimes nobody would apply. And so when I saw the job posting and I saw that it had been extended and I was like, and it was the last day, I was like, it's...
it's the deadlines tonight. And I was like, I'm going to apply because I know I'll at least get an interview because I know how hard it is to find Indigenous people for jobs like this. I applied and then I ended up getting the position. And in the end, obviously, like I transferred managing editor that job to someone else in the company. And I took on more of just like the general leadership role because I had a lot to learn. And so it's actually been three years now that I've been at Indigenous and it's just been this
The first two years were just like, my hair blown back, holding onto the sides, just crazy learning curve. It was very steep. And, but now I think I'm in, I mean, I'm still obviously very new to the industry, but I'm, I feel much more comfortable with what I know and where we're at.
Dr. Kortni (05:34)
one thing I really treasure about you, an incredible storyteller. As I was binge watching Eden on YouTube, watching her incredible, performances as a singer, what I, what I didn't mention is hearing her share her stories.
online and hearing her share her work online that is extremely not only well written, but it's moving. And you are exceptional when it comes to that and allowing us to, to understand and to feel as it relates to your stories.
As it relates to your leadership, what do you consider your leadership style when you are leading your team at Addiginews?
Eden Fineday (06:19)
I would say it's pretty informal. You know, one thing that happened pretty early on at Indigenews is I arrived and ostensibly was the boss, but I knew that I didn't have the expertise I needed to make certain decisions. I always involved the team in big decisions. And what that meant was the hierarchy sort of just like flattened on its own because I didn't see myself as like having authority over these people.
And so we were able to be much more collaborative, which I think made us make better decisions, you can utilize everyone's intelligence rather than just like depending on your own. And the other thing is I always go by instinct.
I didn't go to Harvard Business School. Like there's not like a set of principles I'm following. I'm using my gut and I'm using my common sense and I'm using my understanding of humans and human nature and also my own lessons that I've learned in my life. And I'm assessing each situation as it comes up and doing my best and sometimes falling flat on my face. I think one thing that maybe has allowed me to get where I am today is the fact that I'm
I with being uncomfortable. I fail a lot. make a lot of mistakes and I think some people would be like, that's humiliating. would never do that. I've been called chronically optimistic.
Dr. Kortni (07:32)
laughing because I resemble that. I'm going-
Eden Fineday (07:34)
Yeah
But yeah, there were times where I just did things that were maybe unconventional and they worked and then you seem like you're really cool. And then there's things I did that were unconventional and they didn't work. And then it's like, what the hell is this? What is she doing? And I was willing to try those things and to be in different positions.
Dr. Kortni (07:51)
you said so many great things there. one of the questions I want to ask you, based on what you just shared, you talked about collaborating with your team and really working together. What does that look like?
Eden Fineday (08:04)
one thing we did pretty early on is we created an anti-council. So was where the three Indigenous women who were leading Indigenous, we got together and we'd make all the big decisions. And that's right in line with our culture, where I'm a Cree person, and in my culture, we used to be matriarchal.
And still today in this community, even though you'll see the men are in most of the like elected leadership positions and, or, they're the ones who are more likely to be like entrepreneurs and not with the government getting their name known. It, the still today in our communities, it's the older women who I call cookums because that's in my language, that means your grandmother or a grandmother. It's the cookums who run the show. They run the families. And I think this is true in like most cultures, except for like,
the new sort of Western capitalist thing. I think that's brand new. But I think before that, and I would say probably most cultures, like it's the old women who run the show, they boss the young men around and they boss everyone else around. And that's how stuff gets done and how things are done in a good way and the right way.
We just used our culture. It happened to be that the three of us are Cree. That wasn't done intentionally, but Cree people are the largest Indigenous group in Canada, so our First Nations group. that's just how it ended up rolling out. So yeah, we governed by anti-council.
Dr. Kortni (09:21)
So I'm curious being a Cree woman, right? And earlier you talked about making decisions based on your gut. Does that come from a spiritual place? And what does that look like when you're making a decision based on your gut?
Eden Fineday (09:37)
I don't know where it comes from. I just know that I've always had a very strong sense of this is bull crap. I, this is not, this is ridiculous. This is farcical even, but this is how the world works. I always had that sense. And I think a lot of children do when they're in a class and the teacher says, you have to share. And you're just like, you don't share. Nobody shares out in the real world. Come on. Or whatever. Like,
Or you see like your teachers or your parents saying things that they don't do and you see the hypocriticalness of it. Thank you. The hypocrisy of it. I just had a very strong sense of justice all of my life, even as a young child. that's just for me, I don't know where it comes from, but it's, just there. And I know when something is right or wrong or
Dr. Kortni (10:08)
Hypocrisy,
Eden Fineday (10:21)
And I know when I feel strongly that something has to happen a certain way or should happen a certain way. And most of my life I've had no power. So I just had to be like, this should be happening a different way, but it's not. And I can't change that because of my position in the world or in this company or in this room or whatever. So when I found myself in a position of actually being able to make decisions, I was like, my gosh, okay, cool. Let's build something that is safe for Indigenous women. Let's build something that takes care of our team.
Let's build something that makes common sense. I don't think anything we do is that out there. It's really just prioritizing what I think is pretty obvious to any five-year-old.
Dr. Kortni (10:59)
You know, it's interesting you say that because one of the things that's the mission of this podcast is to be human centered. And one of the things I treasure about your work and your newsroom and really how you look at storytelling, it's based on being human centered. How do you go about creating that safe space?
Eden Fineday (11:06)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
You know, it takes time to build it actually. I waltzed into the newsroom and I just thought, okay, I'm gonna be real cool and everyone's gonna trust me and it's gonna be easy. But it wasn't like that. I had to, first of all, learn a lot. And I think the team that was already there when I arrived, they were like, this person knows nothing. there's not gonna be that. So it's a journey.
So was like, I did my best to learn everything I could as quickly as I could. And I was really forthright and honest about what I was learning. And I think also that might've inspired some distrust because people don't generally admit to what they don't know or they don't talk about openly like their weaknesses. I think that was actually seen as a weakness. Like who is this crazy person talking about things they don't know? That's weird. Like people, we don't do that, right? So it was just sort of like built.
It was built together over time between me and my team.
Dr. Kortni (12:13)
when Eden was talking about sharing and being transparent, I quickly nodded and in response to that agreement, because I often tell people that I am overly transparent. And a part of being transparent for me is, I guess it's almost a teacher inside of me, even before I became a professor. And it's allowing people to understand
Eden Fineday (12:33)
Hmm.
Dr. Kortni (12:37)
First off, me being vulnerable, which I feel is a great strength. Second, it's understanding why I'm making that decision. You know, when I'm sharing it with my team, and even when I'm in the classroom I tell students, go, you know, I'm not gonna be the person simply just telling you, this is this. I'm gonna be a person explaining to you why I'm saying this, or what's going on in my thought process. So when you share that, it hit me, because to me,
That is a strength that as human beings that we have been conditioned to see the devaluing of, well, this person is sharing, but I think there's so much value as it relates to that. because I'm still the overly transparent leader. Are you still?
operating in terms of that capacity. And now, since you begin to build this level of trust, have you seen maybe a shift in behavior in regards to the level of transparency that you have?
Eden Fineday (13:40)
Not a shift in my behavior since the trust came. Yes. yeah, sorry. Yeah. Yes, absolutely. I would say at this point in time, the core team is rock solid. we are almost, feel like we've trauma bonded. Like we've been in the trenches together and we would like cut someone for you.
Dr. Kortni (13:42)
or shifting their behavior. I was just saying, shit, okay. No, no, that's okay.
Eden Fineday (13:59)
Where's the body? Like we will help you bury it. Like send me the digits.
Dr. Kortni (14:02)
I'm sorry, Eden, I'm from the state
of New Jersey in the United States, so I can understand some things. Just thinking about the Sopranos, guys, just thinking about the Sopranos.
Eden Fineday (14:09)
That, yeah. Yes, exactly.
I'll bring the shovel, like, just pick me up. We'll get this done. Yeah, this is where, our bond is unshakeable now, I would say at this point. And it took time to, it took time to say, I'm not, because anybody can say things. And that's the other thing about this world where everyone knows now the lingo that people want to hear. anyone can say the stuff I was saying.
I had to prove to them that I was willing to live that and that I had integrity and I would walk the talk. and they had and they took their time deciding whether or not to trust me. And then when they saw that I was trustworthy, they were all into. you had me inspired when you were talking about how you're overly transparent, I thought about why I came in like that. And I think it's because
I know that as an Indigenous person in so-called Canada, I have been lied to my entire life by literally everybody, especially teachers, doctors, government officials, police, anyone with authority. The lie I've been told is Canada is a beautiful democracy. It's a meritocracy. All you have to do is work hard and then you'll be respected and you'll live well.
and Indigenous people are just, you know, morally deficient. That's why they're drug addicts, alcoholics, living on the street, blah, blah. And, you know, we tried to help you people, but clearly we can't. So the least you could do is to at least become like a Canadian because we're the good people. I'm going to educate you for your own good. and it's a disgusting, horrible, racist, lie.
And just the gaslighting of existing in this world right now as an Indigenous woman is off the charts. So when I came into the room, I wanted to let them know like, you're not crazy. They're all assholes. Like, I know you've been told that you're crazy and you're not. And I wanna give you the safe space where you can learn to trust yourself again after generations of being lied to.
Dr. Kortni (15:56)
Mmm.
Eden Fineday (16:11)
so that you understand how sacred you are, how beautiful you are, so you could do your best work because this world needs your best work. This world needs you as an Indigenous woman. And I wanted to create a space where people felt safe being who they were so they could share their beauty and their wisdom and their skills with the rest of the world.
Dr. Kortni (16:32)
I love that. You know, I love it in so many different ways. I love it because of I think it's so important to be vulnerable. One thing I love about being transparent, I feel that it goes back to Dr. BrenƩ Brown's work talking about shame and vulnerability. To me, it takes shame out. Right. Because I feel that I have the I'm empowered by sharing.
Eden Fineday (16:50)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kortni (16:54)
And what I love so much about what you just shared is the value of you going in to your work as a leader, as your whole self. Like not Eden leader, and then Eden this is Eden. And I think that is so important. How have you been able
Eden Fineday (17:06)
Hmm.
Dr. Kortni (17:16)
have this great level of self-awareness to come in really as your whole self in terms of being a manager because there could be someone listening that's saying, how do I even do that?
Eden Fineday (17:27)
I mean, it has to do with what I've experienced in my life. I worked for 10 years for the federal government in roles where I was always the junior person in the room and all of these like white people were making decisions about everyone. even used to work briefly for the department that was dealing with compensating indigenous survivors of residential school or what Americans would call boarding school. I was like the clerk and there were all these white people deciding how
how much money these survivors would be paid based on the most disgusting, the assessment tools were so degrading and disgusting. Like the survivor had to talk about every single detail of the abuse, like every detail, and then be judged on how bad it was by these white people. And that was just one aspect.
Dr. Kortni (18:12)
Wow, that's re-traumatizing.
Eden Fineday (18:15)
girl, yes. Well, I think I honestly believe like, like I lived in California for 11 years and when I moved back to Canada, it was, I think it was re-traumatizing just being here, seeing the level of just racist gaslighting was just it. Yeah. was, then I, I spent 10 years in that system. I'm not necessarily at that department, but I moved around a bunch. And then it really harmed me.
mentally and emotionally. I also married someone who didn't really respect my culture. And so after like 10, 15 years of that whole thing, I just had a total nervous breakdown. Like I stopped working, I got divorced. I just hid from the world for like six, seven, eight years. I didn't do anything but focus on raising my kids because I loved them so much and I didn't, I didn't like, I couldn't do anything else. I was like, I'm prioritizing them.
Clearly I don't belong in the world, because that world chewed me up and spit me out. And then, finally, when I re-entered the world, I was like, I will only go into Indigenous spaces, because I've been so harmed by non-Indigenous spaces. And so I knew that I can't show up in a room as some professional without my Indigenous identity. I tried that, and it nearly killed me. It was a lie.
because your identity, indigenous identity, it like permeates your everything. It's the core of who you are. So to pretend that I could separate them was actually quite damaging for my spirit. I really believe like my spirit left my body for like years. And that's when I spiraled and I learned how to call my spirit back and how to support my spirit and being in my body by re-embracing my cultural teachings, seeking out elders to learn from.
going to ceremony, really understanding like who I am and learning from these elders who I am based on Kree cosmology and that restored me as a human being. So I'm not going to go into some job and pretend that I can separate that anymore. I just got myself back in one piece. So I'm going to stay in one piece and I'm going to try to create that world, that room where other people feel like they can be their whole selves as well. So that
because we need healed people to help heal this world.
Dr. Kortni (20:30)
Wow, that is really powerful. We need heal people to help heal this world.
That is powerful, Eden, on so many different levels. I am curious, because you talked about getting advice and seeking advice from the elders. How do you honor your self-care in regards to making sure that you are supporting your soul?
right, and making sure that you are taking care of yourself. What does that look like to you, you know, as a leader who is managing a news operation and also making sure that you're creating the safe space for your team.
Eden Fineday (21:18)
I learned from an elder a few years ago that ritual can heal addiction is what he said. I don't know if that's true, but he told me I had to smudge twice a day and I started doing that. So every single day I light a little charcoal. wait 15 minutes till it's white hot. And then I put these sacred medicines on it. So in my culture, that would be sage, sweet grass, sometimes cedar.
And I do a smoke bath of my body. And really what it is is you're cleaning your energetic field. And that's so that your ancestors who are always around you and behind you, they can whisper in your ears. can help guide you because you're cleaning yourself. It's like you're emptying yourself so that they can be there to like fill you. I started doing that twice a day, religiously, because it is sort of our religion.
That's one thing I do. then my end doing that with my kids too, passing that on and then seeing, how happy it made my dad when I told them that's what me and my kids were doing. You know, he's the Cree one in my family. My mom's actually non-Indigenous. So like seeing that that actually meant a lot to my dad to know that I'm teaching my kids to smudge twice a day. that was, so it's just a spiritual practice that in prayer. So I've started to pray more.
I lay down tobacco on the ground, that's how we pray in my culture. And I speak to the grandmothers and grandfathers all around me. And so I'm in my cosmology, I'm related to everything around me. I'm related to the tree, I'm related to the moon, I'm related to this rock.
This one I call Nemosom, that means my grandfather. My Cree teacher told me this grandfather will teach me more Cree than he can. Every morning I smudge this grandfather, like and I smudge myself and I keep him right beside my desk on a red cloth because that's a sign of respect. My Cree elder taught me to do this and so I do it. So I've incorporated ritual.
Dr. Kortni (22:54)
Wow.
Eden Fineday (23:16)
into my daily life. It's become a daily practice. And I think that's how I support my own self care. And then I think too, like I just, I feel restored by my own culture. Like one of my elders calls himself a Cree supremacist. I would never say that because I'd probably get roasted on social media, but it's really funny to me. I...
Dr. Kortni (23:31)
Chris!
Eden Fineday (23:41)
It's a beautiful way of looking at the world. so leaning into my creeness is how I practice self care.
Dr. Kortni (23:51)
I love that in terms of you talking about leaning into your creeness. one of the things that I valued in regards to working with you with your capstone is how you leaned in to incorporating Indigenous values into newsroom culture. Talk to us about what that looks like and what news leaders can really learn.
Eden Fineday (24:13)
Mm.
I mean, there's two things that really guide what I do. And they were both taught to me in the last few years by one of my elders. One of them, he told me that how we do something is more important than what we do. And that's such a radical concept for this world right now. In a time where capitalism is like, I don't care how you get it done, get it done.
step on people, yell at your kids, like, doesn't matter, like you have to get the stuff done. Cree culture is the ant antithetical to that. And it really stopped him in my tracks, like, okay, wait, so actually how I'm speaking to you right now in this moment is more important than where this podcast ends up going and who ends up listening to it. How I speak to my team members at work.
is more important than
the story they're writing. It's such a strange, but incredibly deep teaching. And if you can bring that into your life, I mean, it just transforms things. I sometimes feel bad sharing this with like mainstream newsrooms, people who work in mainstream newsrooms because they don't have the option of being like that most of the time. unless they're leaders,
they just have to get the story out because they have a deadline and that's, and they're, you know, the most junior reporter in the room isn't going to be the one that transforms newsroom culture. newsroom leaders for the most part would just laugh at what I said, which is why it's so incredible. Even though we're tiny, the fact that we're Indigenous led has allowed Indigenous to do something that almost very few other newsrooms have ever done.
which is prioritize the how over the what. And so what that does is that creates trauma informed reporting because you're no longer rushing your sources. You're no longer placing their wellbeing below your need for a good quote. You're actually placing their wellbeing at the heart of your interaction and you're building a relationship that you can go back to over time. So it becomes about kinship.
And so for us, we talk about kinship. Wakotawin is a Cree word that means kinship. And we focus on kinship over the product. So we try to treat ourselves with compassion and kindness. We try to treat each other with compassion and kindness. And we try to treat the communities we're writing about and from with compassion.
Dr. Kortni (26:40)
You spoke to a print publication about that. And I believe one of the things that came out of that conversation was what I believe what you called it slow news? Right?
Eden Fineday (26:53)
slow news. Yeah, exactly. We're not gonna
get the breaking story like ever.
Dr. Kortni (26:59)
Yes,
walk us through what you shared with us, what it looks like. Walk us through an example of the slow news and how it had benefited not only your newsroom, but the community that you serve.
Eden Fineday (27:16)
I can give an example of before my time. some of this newsroom culture was actually put in place by an incredible woman named Kelsey Kalana. She sort of, I call her the, like the godmother of indigenous. She was here for a couple of years and she really set the cultural tone that when I joined and she was still there, I really felt supported in being like in doing the things I'm talking about doing now. She supported me in doing that. And then she went on to other projects.
one thing that they did before I joined Indigenous was there was this big international news event in the city called Kamloops, which the First Nation there calls to Kamloops. and then we call it the Kamloops 215. what happened was at a former residential school, AKA boarding school, we know as Indigenous people that a lot of our children died in those schools. Like we know that communities would send
their children to those schools and then they just wouldn't come back. Parents were not informed of if their children had died or how or where they were buried. We were treated like animals. if our children didn't come home, it was like, well, who cares? There's a bunch more Indians, they'll get over it. And so what most communities are doing now are starting to conduct searches of the grounds of the residential schools. And they're finding using ground penetrating radar
they're finding anomalies in the ground that could be graves based on their size and their shape. So what happened is Kamloops was one of the first schools to issue this news release saying we found 215 anomalies that could be the graves of children that attended this school. And so the world went nuts and everybody flocked there. Well, Kelsey Kalana, the woman I was just referencing, she's from that community.
her family went to that school. So this was an incredibly difficult time for her. It was a very, very triggering news event, right? one thing we do when there's a big loss in our communities, we'll light a sacred fire. And when I say our community, I mean our communities. Obviously we're not a monolith. Kelsey's not Cree, she's a Sealds Okanagan. But in her community, like ours, they light a sacred fire for four days when there's something.
tragic happens or something, there's a huge loss. So their community lit that sacred fire and it has to burn for four days per their traditions. what Kelsey did is she said, we're not covering this story at all. We're going to go dark. She actually, they didn't publish anything for four days. Nothing they literally stopped the newsroom. then they obviously they,
They tweeted about doing that or they put it out on socials. We're not going to be covering this and we're taking some time. We're taking those four days. We're going to honor that sacred fire because that's what mattered to Kelsey as a Seelks woman. and that was a really bold thing to do. and the effect it had was that now that community feels like we're the only newsroom they trust or one of the only newsrooms they trust because communities are harmed when
journalists from all over the world parachute in for like a day and a half, try to get pictures of you crying, ask you, so one of your ancestors died here, how did that feel? Stick a microphone on your face, trying to get the like tears on camera. Like that's really bad for communities. And so that's how the world of course reported on it. Cause that's, that's how we report on international tragedies, right? We send people from all over the globe and we try to get
proof of how horrifying it was so people can click on our stories. it was a really bold move that she did to not publish that. And then we did something similar a couple of years after that when there was this string of young Indigenous women that were found dead around British Columbia. After the fourth one, we just, we took a break and we posted something about not reporting. And at the time, know, our editor Kara, she was nervous. She was like, this feels so wrong. Like she's a classically trained journalist. She went to J-school.
So to not report on the deaths of these four women was really hard for her. But within 12 hours, like what we heard from the community was that it meant a lot to them, that we understood and honoured their grieving rather than trying to elbow our way in there and like talk about it like all the newsrooms were. To get the feedback from the community that we had made the right call on that was all that we needed to hear. yeah, so those are a couple of examples
Dr. Kortni (31:18)
I often talk about compassionate newsrooms being the heartbeat of the newsroom and those that are operating like yourself as a compassionate leader. And what that means in regards to not just your team, but your community.
what has been one of the most influential leaders that you've ever had in your life, in and out of a news organization, in our government, or any entity that you have been exposed to, how has that influenced you
Eden Fineday (31:53)
Yeah, I I think that would have to be Kelsey. Like honestly, you could talk to anybody who's worked with Kelsey in any capacity at any organization and they would probably tell you that she was like a major influence in their lives. and one reason that's true too, is that I believe we live in a very immature culture. We live in a very immature society. and so most of my life, even if I was working in the federal government with executive directors or
police chiefs or whatever, to me they seemed immature. I found no wisdom in their systems. I would be operating in these systems that felt unwise to me, childish, selfish, egotistical, like really not, prioritizing the whole, but prioritizing the self. That to me is an immature culture. And that's the culture that raised me.
So even as a child, I felt more mature than the adults around me, spouting these beliefs that I just, in my heart, I knew they weren't true. So I never felt like I had someone to look up to. And so when I met Kelsey, she really like emboldened me. Like I arrived, she was there already, and I was like, whoa, this woman is radical. And she makes me feel safe to be who I really am. And who I really am is also radical.
I say that meaning in relation to how most mainstream the world operates. it's pretty radical. I don't think I'm radical when I'm in the room, but I know how it could be perceived from the outside. honestly, like I just, there's just very few people in the world who, I don't know who I feel like have anything really to teach us. Like, like, look at the leadership of the United States, the incoming leadership, like what.
What do they have to teach us? You know, I don't, I don't trust Elon Musk's morals. Like I wouldn't, I don't look up to him. So it's funny to me that this is, this is, that's the world that we're in I would say she was one of the first people that ever really made me feel safe enough to be myself.
Dr. Kortni (33:48)
I recently was asked to speak
about post-election stress. And it's interesting that you just brought that up
one of the things that I really valued is when you talked about going through organizations where you experience racism, unconscious bias, gaslighting, What would you say
to a journalist what would you say to them in terms of how to go about protecting their mental health when it comes down to dealing with racism, unconscious bias?
Eden Fineday (34:21)
So I would not have survived in a mainstream newsroom and neither would have Kelsey. the reason Indigenous is able to do the things we do is because we're led by Indigenous women. And the reason we're led by Indigenous women is because someone decided to start a tiny
online news outlet for Indigenous people.
We have to create our own spaces. We're not going to thrive in their spaces. And I don't mean to sound like doomsday-ish and I don't mean to also like accuse anyone who's working within those systems. Like you need to feed your family. I understand you have obligations. But I also know you're not safe. And you know that too, because of the like armor you have to put on every day to get into the newsroom or the like, you know,
the booze you have to drink in order to come down from that or whatever, the things you need to do to cope, which might not be necessarily healthy, but you don't see a way to get through it any other way. We had to start our own little weird niche newsroom and we did that. We were able to support each other. We were able to protect each other. And that actually ended up creating excellent journalism. Like we win awards.
For the size of our newsroom, we're competing with newsrooms that are 50 times the size sometimes and winning over them sometimes. we're creating amazing journalism, not because that was our goal. We had to start with creating safety and support for ourselves. like I said, like I had already sort of, I had checked out of society. I knew I didn't fit. I knew it didn't love me or need me or support me. Like I couldn't function in regular society.
I had to take a break from it. Not everyone has that option. Like I had the support system to do that. And so, you know, I don't want to blame anybody who's trapped in a difficult situation. all I can say is have compassion for yourself, love yourself, forgive yourself. If you feel like you made a decision that wasn't wise, that got you where you are, forgive yourself right now. Have compassion for yourself right now and think.
Where would I like to be in a year or two years or three years? And how could I gently transition there? Maybe that's something to think about because you can't, I doubt you're safe where you are if you're in a mainstream newsroom, but you also need to feed your kids. like have compassion for yourself.
Dr. Kortni (36:36)
I often talk about is the value of self-compassion. And I really treasure that what you just shared because what's so important is that every step of the way we give each other grace and especially giving yourself grace.
Eden Fineday (36:47)
Yes.
Dr. Kortni (36:49)
The reason why I can also speak this way is also because of my level of self-compassion. It starts with you. When you're self-compassionate, and then you can again create that ripple effect in terms of granting grace.
Eden Fineday (36:54)
Mm.
Dr. Kortni (37:03)
I'm asking this question of everyone that's part of the Compassionate Newsroom podcast of news leaders and experts, I want to ask you as a news leader, how do you define compassionate leadership?
Eden Fineday (37:16)
How do I define it?
I would define it as leadership that is...
able to fully listen.
And you can't listen unless you're really present.
if a leader is able to truly be present and listen, those people who work under them feel heard and seen. And that's what they need. And that's what creates compassion. Even if you have to let someone go, or even if you can't give them the promotion or whatever it is, you can make someone feel seen, heard, and valued as a human being.
And that's what all of us need.
Dr. Kortni (37:48)
Eden, fine day. Thank you so much for joining us today.
Eden Fineday (37:53)
Thank you, Dr. Kortni So lovely to see you.
Dr. Kortni (37:57)
It's always great to see you. Eden, you are fantastic.
Dr. Kortni (38:03)
for tuning into the Compassionate Newsroom podcast. Together we can transform workplace wellbeing in news. If you found value in today's episode, please share it with a colleague to help foster a supportive environment in the industry. And don't forget to subscribe and also visit our website for more resources at thecompassionatenewsroom.com.